For general non AstroFlux related chitchat
#75396 by Dmitry Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:13 pm
If I'm not mistaken, it would appear that the purpose was to point out how stupid the interpersonal drama is, but it backfired and became more of the same.
#75397 by traf Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:55 pm
Yeah, that seems about right

Please feel free to private message me!

"Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you."

“Don't write so that you can be understood, write so that you can't be misunderstood.”
― William Howard Taft
#75398 by boogerrito Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:54 pm
Look, I did not want to incite more trouble. This experience has made it clear that it is possible to overlook our past issues, even if doing so was for ulterior motives. If we can get along when we're just trying to pry information from each other, why can't we just get along when we're playing a game we both like playing? We don't have to like one another, just give each other some level of mutual respect.

I'm all for just enjoying the game, and I can do so from both NEMESIS and Depraved. And if both parties are fine with this, and they are fine with how I play the game, then I have no qualms about 'playing both sides.'

Thank you all for listening to what I have to say. I think, all things considered, this was productive. Mods may lock this thread if it becomes volatile, but I think our issues are settled.

#75399 by McPwny Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:27 pm
no. i dont like it and i dont beleive i can bring myself to like it.

[PURPLE!]
#75400 by Nightsky Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:43 pm
To break down the purpose of this thread: The trust towards moderators and players alike and the manipulation of others. Now let me tell you something about trust and I'm sure most of you have enough braincells to understand that. Trust is a two-sided medal that requires both's people to work on it. Unless you both don't share trust there is no need to share private conversations. It is as simple as that. Unless some insults are involved or moderator-specific stuff that requires reporting, the in the start post specified screenshot was basically shared without permission and - therefor claimed trust - broken. Even the public posting of it is breaking the actual purpose of what a private conversation is there for. A private conversation is meant to be between two or more persons. I don't think the chef of an organization would appreciate it if you leak private informations to the outside world. I think you can even get sued for that but that's beside the point. The point I'm trying to make here - And from what I can get from this thread - is that people expect trust from someone else and is proven that this trust is only one-sided or non-existent. A sad but common habit of a human.

To just let my negative personality speak, the majority of the moderators in this game will be the demise of it in the not-so-distant future, the same also counts for several players here. None of the moderators are taking their job seriously enough to deserve it. I don't even know if the moderators here could count up the 9 basic rules of a moderator. If they can, great, now start following that list. A lot of players here are contributing to the game's dark future as well. Honestly I would enjoy to see the game suffer and seeing the dev's endlessly attempting to make it better just to run in a circle, past the same problem over and over again, stumbling over it.

To let my positive side speak, I'm glad about having some people here as moderators. There are a few people I highly appreciate. And I'm not saying that because I'm friends with them, because I'm not.

Boogerito, you don't want to cause trouble but you do the exact opposite. I think you should be wise enough to know what the difference between 'drama' and 'discussion' is. And what you are bringing up is framing someone and having a drama about it. Passive, of course. I may recommend you the book of basic psychology.

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#75401 by traf Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:07 pm
Well, val does like to do his “trust experiments”, and like I said this wasn’t the first time he’s done this. I knew what he was doing, and I knew what I was doing when I gave permission for that shot to be shared publicly.

If he wants to say “how dare you!”, have at it. Val lost all of my trust months ago, for innumerable reasons. Why he would stage a “ooo, let’s see if I can trust traf still” event I don’t know, and as i’ve said before: I don’t care.

Perhaps my perspective on this is slightly toxic . . . at least I can rest easy knowing that my outlook is a reactionary one.

Please feel free to private message me!

"Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you."

“Don't write so that you can be understood, write so that you can't be misunderstood.”
― William Howard Taft
#75402 by Nightsky Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm
You would be surprised... My BF and I also have done some 'Trust experiments' - some of them being a little more extreme than this case - Just to see how good we can trust each other. Especially in the early stages of a relationship it can be hard sometimes to fully trust your partner. This is not much different in this case, he can't be fully certain if he can trust you. He just wants to see how good he can trust you, in my opinion a valid way to not leak sensitive information that might get into wrong hands. Whether you should feel ashamed or not is up to you. Take the following sentence as a friendly message: Often being quiet is better than talking a lot.

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#75404 by traf Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:53 pm
I have no idea how your personal experiences in romance relate to this, but that’s besides the point. When someone that I do not trust whatsoever is attempting to take advantage of someone else, I’m going to warn the intended target. Who in their right mind would expect me to act otherwise?

Please feel free to private message me!

"Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you."

“Don't write so that you can be understood, write so that you can't be misunderstood.”
― William Howard Taft
#75405 by Nightsky Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:02 pm
traf, we both know exactly that you know that this romance thing is a so called 'Comparison'. Similar event of trust, since I have already stated a few points for trust.

You admitted something... "When someone that I do not trust whatsoever is attempting to take advantage of someone else, I’m going to warn the intended target." - So, let me take this the wrong way intentionally, you want to say that *IF* you would trust Valorius, you wouldn't have warned the target? In terms of moderation rules this would be a violation of the rule "Leaving personal feelings and aspects out of the judgment and decision." - Since I hope that this isn't the case I won't frame you for that.

But let's not make this a personal discussion. We can continue this in PM's to not derail this thread.

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#75406 by BrianN Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:22 pm

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” -Edmund Burke
#75407 by traf Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:38 pm
Well, if I understand your intended comparison correctly, I would politely counter that this isn’t a relationship in the early stages. Levels of trust between us were quite a bit higher years ago, then stuff happened and etc etc. No need for details methinks.

But as to your next paragraph, keep in mind that our conversation didn’t have anything to do with actual mod business, or moderating. If he would have said “hey i’m going to see if I can get him to squeal on his friends, because I think they’re a bunch of hackers” then I *most likely* would not have warned anyone, even with me not trusting him whatsoever. However, as the screen shows, it was explicitly stated that Valorius was going to attempt to outmanipulate swole in some fashion. That’s a different situation, and as such I handled it differently. As should be expected.

Perhaps the intent of this “trust fall” was to see if I could be “tripped up”. After traf the player warns a potential target, then someone could turn around and say “see? We can’t trust traf in general”, thereby implying that traf the moderator shouldn’t be trusted either. While I admit that this argument is clever, it’s simply nonsense.

Please feel free to private message me!

"Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you."

“Don't write so that you can be understood, write so that you can't be misunderstood.”
― William Howard Taft
#75408 by traf Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:39 pm
Oops, didn’t see your post Brian. I’ll have to read it when I have time

Please feel free to private message me!

"Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you."

“Don't write so that you can be understood, write so that you can't be misunderstood.”
― William Howard Taft
#75409 by traf Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:41 pm

Please feel free to private message me!

"Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you."

“Don't write so that you can be understood, write so that you can't be misunderstood.”
― William Howard Taft
#75411 by Nightsky Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:48 pm
Traf, just because you are doing this out-of-duty, it doesn't mean this get's any better. Why? Let me picture you a good example.

You are a police man. You do a good job at it. You stay impartial and unbiased, no matter who your friend or foe is, since this is your job. You decide that you spy for someone 'outside of your duty' time. Does this make it any less awkward? That you as a police man do something you shouldn't do, even if that is outside of your duty? The answer is no, because your primary job is still police man, and if this action hits the light you will have some talks with your chef. It's similar as a moderator. While you most likely won't suffer from a penalty here because it's Astroflux, let me tell you that you would have been demoted in other game communities already. I have a friend who used to be a moderator in the game "Dark Orbit" - He gave me inside informations of the game outside of his duty times. This got leaked accidentally. Even if it was outside of his duty time he still got demoted for sharing inside information and private conversations between him and other players. He lost his position.

That you are protected here is simply because this community is not as vast as other's, this doesn't make this case any better. You can argue about it but the fact won't be changed. While your job won't be affected, your reputation sure will. And before you draw any conclusions, I'm on neither's side here.

Imagine I would do that to you. Let's just turn this situation around. You tell me something about you wanting to "Manipulate" someone to potentially get the truth of someone. Maybe this would have worked, maybe this certain someone is really hiding some secrets, maybe this certain someone does something no one knows about. Now I decide to tell this guy about it. You had a private conversation with me, additionally I would have been a moderator. But of course I did it 'Out of my duty'.

Besides that, you kinda protect someone who's also doing something shady. I wonder why. :| I mean spying on someone else's clan to get some inside informations and maybe cause some drama inside the clan iss - uhh - Let's say equally bad as manipulating someone to potentially get the truth of someone or something. I mean who knows, maybe Val would have never done that and he really just said that to lure you somewhere else, in which case he completely succeeded.

#edit: Speaking of trust, traf, players NEED to trust you, otherwise your status as moderator is obsolete really.

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AstroFlux is a MMO space shooter with numerous weapons, upgrades and abilities. Explore the galaxy and collect space junk to gain resources for new technologies.