For AstroFlux related discussion
#74853 by Nightsky Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:05 pm
I'm sorry but this is something I really need to vent about now. And it may not directly apply to me, but various other players and clans that are affected. And this could potentially mean the doom for Astroflux in the future. I am talking about War, Toxicity and Kos'ing in the game. So, why exactly do I feel like this is a bad thing?

Now War can happen in every game, and in many games it's a fixed part. And it's nothing bad, war is something that is just part of games. In Astroflux it can escalate though as I have witnessed quite a few times now. And this also counts for Kos'ing people. Things like these just tend to become too extreme in Astroflux to a point where people take a quit and just leave the game. And this is negatively impacting the game, especially the user count. We all are complaining about a low player count and how several systems are just empty most of the time. And I mean it's true, the amount of players that play this game daily is very low. But stuff like that is not really helping the game, it actually does the exact opposite and it makes it worse and bring the game faster to the point of where the servers are better left shut down.

Today I could experience a good example. Actually two at the same time. While playing this game and doing my dailies I decided to fight a player in a PvP instance. Even though he was higher level he decided to die and left. Soon a higher level came and hunted me down. Through so many systems he followed me and tried to make it impossible to complete my dailies, in PvP systems he killed me continuously. So I switched to my main and killed him instead which resulted that he called for backup. Well... This just proves the toxicity in this game. Even a kill can put you on a Kos list and literally mean that in the future you can't play this game properly anymore. The continuation of this story is that another player helped me. We both were more or less victorious. Another player joined the fight while we said that he shouldn't interrupt. The result of that single sentence was a lifetime KoS... Now, let me ask this question: Seriously? This just proves that Kos'ing is being abused in this game and well - right now it tends to make people quit which is contra productive to what we have to achieve now.

And this is what I really want to point out now. People, you should be more considerate of others. Keep in mind that on the other side sits another human who also just wants to have fun. So don't ruin their enjoyment for the game, unless you want this game to be empty in the not-so-distant future. Because due to all of this war, this toxicity and of course the Kos'ing as a result of toxicity. If you have a problem with someone, solve it with words. If it doesn't work out, geez, be enemies for a day or two. But don't make this person's life a hell by just constantly killing him whenever you see them. Because this is what makes players quit this game or makes them play it less.

We also have certain players who are flying around in the low level PvP systems and kill everyone who is unfortunate enough to be in that system in that very moment and potentially is getting camped for actually no reason. Yes, this is a PvP instance, but it is a game nonetheless, so it should be enjoyable for everyone, not frustrating. And the developers should start to support this thought if they want to keep their game alive for longer, otherwise this game is soon going to be a desert with only a very few end-game players playing. And I don't think anyone wants that to happen, right?

As I said, I currently don't have any experiences with being hunted really except for that one exception now. But I can imagine how frustrating it must be for some players to be constantly hunted for minor reasons. Even loot stealing is something minor as someone can easily kill another enemy. So there is no need to make a big deal out of it. A war can be good, heck, if you want to clash your heads together, do it... If you want to have revenge, go ahead. But don't exaggerate. I personally want this game to be a place everyone can enjoy, not just a few players.

Thanks for reading.

Regards ~ Nightsky aka Pericles_Corde
Last edited by Nightsky on Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#74856 by traf Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:47 am
I remember being camped as a level 30 or so by someone named Cirasare or something like that. Thankfully he was on kong too, so I could see when he was on and scoot out of pvp instances. After that i’ve never had kos troubles, not that I can recall anyway. However . . . most people are not so lucky. I don’t know how we can change the game culture, since the devs seem to like a rougher game.

I personally think some kind of police v pirates would help in the hostile instances. Perhaps not exactly like the version from years ago, but it would definitely add a bit of complexity to camping. Camping when only the victim can use the safe zone would be interesting.

Is there any way I could make ChatDaemon help with what you mentioned in your post?

Please feel free to private message me!

"Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you."

“Don't write so that you can be understood, write so that you can't be misunderstood.”
― William Howard Taft
#74860 by hugojmaia Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:14 am
I think I've been more fortunate than most on this aspect. I've never been hunted by anyone for more than a system. I've had my pace disrupted by some idiots a couple times, but it never left a lasting impression on me.
I know there's a subset of players so deep into their own rabbit holes that's it's impossible to reason with them.

I haven't had the misfortune of finding myself on the madness end of those players, I think it has to do with how I tend to avoid PvP'ing in PvP systems. Though I've seen how the self sustaining cycle of madness has affected some players, makes me worry about what's gonna happen next.

I'm fine with people staying into their own rabbit holes.
I'm not fine with people dishing out their anger and frustration on others.
I'm not fine with people trying to drag others into their own rabbit holes.
#74862 by Nightsky Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:20 pm
I mean I personally also like games that treat you a bit rougher. In Astroflux we have the issue however that it treats every player differently. Some players have no troubles at all - Mostly players who have achieved a high power strength already - other players have to sit in safe zones because otherwise people would immediately kill them. Or in the worst case scenarios stuff like KoS lists transfer over to PvE system to a point where they just want to prevent a certain player from growing or getting better. I honestly despise those people who constantly seek out for targets they can bully just to have their own satisfaction in the game.

And this is where I bring up consideration. Whenever I play a game I have a certain level of respect and consideration. When I kill a player, I don't do that over and over again, because I know that will frustrate them and it doesn't do the game any good. If a player doesn't want to get attacked by me, I let them be and don't start focusing on that player now just for that request. In fact in this moment I am the problem in the game. Unfortunately for the victims it's not a rule in most games, but I feel like it should be, at least to a certain degree. I wouldn't say it counts as bullying, but I would count it as a sort-of trolling.

I would actually love to have this timer introduced Bellatrix. Safezoners are quite annoying and abuse protection in the game as a weapon. Though 5 seconds would be enough at this point. I just want to be able to defend myself against those safezoners.

I agree with hugojmaia. However there already is a set of players that dug themselves so deep into their justification that reasoning with them is just a mere waste of time. I'm not even going to bring up examples. But for those players the game has become a dreamland. They can kill everything, they can do everything with no punishment. Not really all that great for the game.

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We have such a beautiful community.
#74863 by Bianca Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:34 pm
Usually I do not pvp, dont like it but sometimes ...
I made this experience once - when I played WOW.

I think kosing and toxicity is no special AF problem, its a general problem of mankind.
And I have no idea how to stop it. If you have you might be a candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize.

If people want to be rude they always will find a way to be rude. The peaceful ones have to straighten their backs and stand it.

Maybe one can stem such behavior a bit by making it boring for them. But everyone has to find his own way to do so.

If you love the game play it. But please dont call it dying. The more you do the earlier it will.

Time runs its own way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trhh6BJuBqI


With a wasp at your side you never fight alone
#74864 by traf Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:55 pm
Perhaps some kind of handbook on the wiki for how to escape a KoS?

Please feel free to private message me!

"Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you."

“Don't write so that you can be understood, write so that you can't be misunderstood.”
― William Howard Taft
#74865 by Nightsky Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:02 pm
It might be a good idea to give a few useful tips on the start of the game. The newbies are literally having to find out things on a hard way, they aren't given any tips, any rules etc.

It would be useful if you could give them advices like "Don't pick up loot that belongs to someone else" - That really can prevent a lot of misunderstandings in the future.

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We have such a beautiful community.
#74866 by BrianN Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:41 pm
Id wager a guess that the person you fought was an alt as well, and he got frustrated and went on his main to harass you...dont assume that it was a different person. "Lifetime KoS"...dont take it so literally; if it continues for several days then its a problem.


People camping lowbies...this sounds like a good time to link to the Seven Deadly Sins. Now, Ive hesitated on this because its slightly NSFW but I have no dobuts that everyone who plays this game has seen worse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buyUoGJVZFM
Avarace: Item-Poaching: This mostly manifests in AF with people stealing arts that they obviously dont need...could also be stealing someone's cargo. Its just a matter of spite pretty much...dont be a scabby weasel.
Envy: Quitting out: Not too prevelant but we all know of one person in particular who does this. More prevelant is its cousin SZing. People are too scared of losing their precious killing streak that they SZ when they are close to dying...I know im in the minority on this, but I also think its weak to SZ after you kill someone if you arent in a 1v1. Its not a victwimless cwime. If you cant take the TINY ego hit, then go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure.
Lust: This is pretty unavailable in AF thankfully.
Gluttony: Level Abuse: Here's what got this started...and is the most damaging to the game in terms of new players. Again, if you need to stroke your fragile ego by killing people who have no chance against you, I suggest therapy.
Wrath: Team Killing: You cant specifically do this in AF, but you can screw with people who are peacefully farming. {Take note at 2:26 people, its not like we made this up or that its the slur you think it is.} Why, there is no why.
Sloth-AFKing: Not done much in AF, you will have the odd DOM where someone is afk.
Pride: Exploitation: This is the biggest reason why we have problems with veterans leaving. The 'exploiting' that some people are proud of doing and go so far as to advertise show the true state of their ego and lives. Even when the devs were around, they would have the "if people use exploits, thats our fault and not theirs"...moronic view. Even when we had video evidence as to such unchecked asshattery virtually nothing was done. As well, if you happen to see someone playing on a level field and all of a sudden he goes on a 15 kill streak in a 1v5...what do you think happened? Some people are so obsessed with winning they reduce how their real skill is viewed. If you are a great pilot, but being viewed as such is not enough for you that you enhance your performance, it defeats the power of your god given skills and anyone with eyes can see that something is hinky when you start to hit 70 homers.

I personally think some kind of police v pirates would help in the hostile instances.

As ive said before, police vs pirates is fine...but many times this devolves into police vs criminals with rocket launchers. The fact is that, as usual, 2% of people are causing 90% of the problems...and when we convict someone and gameban them (hard enough to do as is) then they come back and we let them continue to abuse, we arent getting rid of the cancer.

We live in a society that right now reveres trolls...but that way of life is ultimately self defeating, and it takes the rest of society down with it.
If you have you might be a candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize.

See my signature down below.

People being KoS'd also need to know that there ARE police out there...we will come to your defense. But sometimes, the best way to defeat a troll is to not TRY to defeat them. Many times, you can lose the battle but win the war simply by not engaging them. They are looking for a distraction for their own life and inadequacies and feel the need to dump these on other people. Dont feed the trolls.

Bianca was right, telling them not to pick up someone's loot isnt going to do anything...haters gonna hate.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” -Edmund Burke
Online
#74874 by TheStarved Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:25 pm
I feel like I've already written volumes on this topic.

Lots of games shield you from other players. This game occupies a niche where it is possible to behave badly and create problems between yourself and others that the others will remember. When there is no skin in the game that isn't possible. I reject the notion of removing the thing that makes AF unique, or at least rare within online gaming.

It's really easy to avoid someone who wants to hunt you. You are immune in 2/3rds of all instances (clan and PvE) and in 1/3 of instances they are unable to even reach you (clan).

If people didn't have grudges and people to dislike then what would everyone do with their fancy built up internet space ships? Your strength is worthless if you have no reason to use it.

Brian mentions that he and his type will come to your aid. They like being the hero types. Know what they are without the occasional villain? They are nothing. You can't have heroes without villains.

What you describe, by demanding everyone's freedom be restricted, is the removal of the motivation to play for much of the player base.

TheStarved
#74875 by BrianN Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:55 pm
Oh yes! I am nothing without Depraved!!
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There are things outside of you...just because Im available to help against people who need to inflict discomfort on others in order to prop themselves up, doesnt mean I need or want you.
You depraved sure are cocky for being a dead clan.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” -Edmund Burke
Online
#74876 by Nightsky Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:57 pm
The only motivation I have for this game is probably the friends that I made. And possibly a bit of hope that new content will come soon.

The main problem here lays in the PvE systems and Clan instance's biggest flaw. Both instance types tend to be empty while PvP instances tend to be filled, at least some of them. Fulzar PvP as example is richly filled while Fulzar PvE tends to be empty a lot of the times. Well, empty is exaggerated, but let's say there is a low amount of people. And this is the case in so many PvE systems across the AF universe. It isn't an MMO anymore. And in clan instance it's worse. You tend to meet no one there unless you have a clan that is most of their time spending in Clan instance.

The point of an MMO should be obvious. Playing with more players. But right now this is mostly possible in PvP instances, quite saddening that you have to take the risk of being shot down to play with others.

I personally would stay in normal systems. The thing is that - as mentioned before - PvE systems have a huge tendency to have no players. Plus PvP systems are more popular due to the +5 Artifact level. And clan instances even punish you for being inside them with -20% Loot. I think you should slowly get the point.

I feel like players of your kind tend to take topics related to this a bit too light. I'm not a good player, defending myself is a challenge itself. If I want the best I have to take the risk of being shot down. Sadly.


I wouldn't mind this behavior if the game had more players who would play in the friendly instances. Because then I would also switch over to friendly. But right now it is basically the blood of the game to be in PvP instances.

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#74878 by bolbi Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:44 pm
I agree with Starved in a way, in that a great part of this game is being able to choose the villian or hero kind of role, and it's upto you how much of that you want to embrace.

The problem I see mainly is like Night said it's that small percent of the player base that cause this to be a problem. And as Bianca meantioned it's a human problem not so much a game problem, as it is mostly that these players that actually cause the problems we're talking about, enjoy seeing people rage so they go out of their way to cause that. And the thing is because of the freedom of this game it makes a lot of those toxic players much more inclined to stay.

As to a solution, there are a few things with safe zoning, one of the ideas I like would be something like safezones are not active for anyone that has had a player kill within say 20-30 seconds. Though I don't know how implementable that would be. Maybe something else to consider would be choosing what safezone you respawn at after you die that would be a nice addition and pretty much remove, unwanted camping, but that goes back to removing what villian roles can do, but it may be for the best moving forward.

" 'Whatever you want people to do for you, do the same for them.'
(International Standard Version, Luke 6.31)"

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AstroFlux is a MMO space shooter with numerous weapons, upgrades and abilities. Explore the galaxy and collect space junk to gain resources for new technologies.