For AstroFlux related discussion
#74653 by Old Greg Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:38 am
Several rumors and subsequent accusations haven been spreading throughout the AF community recently. This post is to address the validity of each:

Rumor 1: Players can view other players’ arts.
This rumor is true. A player wrote a program to capture this information on the client-side of the game. Doing this is a severe violation of TOS (data harvesting) and will be enforced, when proven. At worst, this only allows a player to know the attributes of an art you have, which, if it is an epic art, you’ve probably already told the world about it.

Rumor 2: Players can copy other players’ arts.
This rumor is false. While a player can view other players’ arts, it is impossible to copy them. Arts are determined and enforced on the server-side of the game. At no time does the client ever have the opportunity to tell the server what arts it has. The entirety of the "Artifact Management" system is server based, ergo, art attributes cannot be modified or copied on the client-side.

Nightsky, Drac, Brian:
Y'all are spot on here re: absolutes. It would have been better to say what we know today, that the devs have reviewed the art copying claim and found no evidence to conclude art copying is occurring. The devs further provided an explanation to the mod group about how the artifact management system works and why they believe it isn't possible for a player to copy an art.

[Edited by Myorum: I believe, this should appear here as a clarifiction. Found on page 3 of this thread.]

Rumor 3: Players can increase their rotational speed above 1.25.
This rumor is true. A player can increase their rotational speed above 1.25. Doing this is a severe violation of TOS and will be enforced, when proven.

If anyone has any questions, please speak with a mod or PM the devs directly. As a reminder: making false claims or slanderous accusations, can result in a chat mute or in more serious situations, a game ban.
#74655 by BrianN Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:17 am
making false claims or slanderous accusations

Like in our convo last night, I like to gather enough data to back up a claim I make, but plenty of things ive said were 'false claims' or 'slanderous accusations'...but were proven true.
I dont know...Ive never been seriously accused of being a hacker; possibly because Im not OP...maybe its because Im not in the one clan with multiple mods who have had maybe ten of their members gamebanned? Its moronic to think that a group with such a long history of abuse and hacking doesnt have a systemic problem. At least now that clan is largely ground into dust.

Be careful on banning...i got banned for 23456 minutes for saying "cram it swoleflake".



...and its not like this community isnt basically dead. We can argue about how much of it is no new content in 1.5 years with no communication from devs; and how much of it was that the people put in power were the worst among us.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” -Edmund Burke
#74656 by mt10kardans Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:31 am
Old Greg wrote:Several rumors and subsequent accusations haven been spreading throughout the AF community recently. This post is to address the validity of each:

Rumor 1: Players can view other players’ arts.
This rumor is true. A player wrote a program to capture this information on the client-side of the game. Doing this is a severe violation of TOS (data harvesting) and will be enforced, when proven. At worst, this only allows a player to know the attributes of an art you have, which, if it is an epic art, you’ve probably already told the world about it.

Rumor 2: Players can copy other players’ arts.
This rumor is false. While a player can view other players’ arts, it is impossible to copy them. Arts are determined and enforced on the server-side of the game. At no time does the client ever have the opportunity to tell the server what arts it has. The entirety of the "Artifact Management" system is server based, ergo, art attributes cannot be modified or copied on the client-side.

Rumor 3: Players can increase their rotational speed above 1.25.
This rumor is true. A player can increase their rotational speed above 1.25. Doing this is a severe violation of TOS and will be enforced, when proven.

If anyone has any questions, please speak with a mod or PM the devs directly. As a reminder: making false claims or slanderous accusations, can result in a chat mute or in more serious situations, a game ban.

Are this for real? Mods gone realy mad with protecting hackers! Players who doing hacks is laughing at me because they still no caught for doing that and i am one who will get mutted or even banned for that that i point it out that player hacks. Great work mods.For 2 months i told that several players sniffs out my arts and everyone thought im crazy like its just excuse but it turned out real deal. If you cant find which players sniffs arts then why you think that same players cant copy arts. It all makes only sence. First you get ID without player saying that. Then you sniff arts and then copy. Otherwise why you even need to sniff arts if you can see them in best arts thread. Couple month ago when couple players started get op Zhersis arts and kick famous players not long after that these players was on same level again without farming. I want point out Ilyes for example who was crying for me to help him when some clan memmers were fighting him and he could not deal even with medium level strenght players. After 2 weeks he got at my level strenght and i had to fight him like some level 150 heavy farmer while he laughed at me that im loser, weak and noob with no skill. After 2 months or so he got banned for hacking. And there is quite players with same storry except they are still in game. And now you are telling me that i get banned for pointing out all these things while these hackers laughing at me and trolling me like im fool for pointing out allready proven things and more things to prove. Great job mods! Congrats on your generous work. Help these players get rid of me and others players who know too much. First mute and then ban. Realy great work much thanks from all my not existing heart.
Ps. since i got mutted i wanted also say that i realy enjoy those 3k adv chips which i got after i killled you Swole.
Ps.2 From now on i will kill anyone who even lifts little finger for them. Anyone who is even getting friendly conversation with them. So you can make also make represitions agaist players who know too much or just play pvp.

[edited by Greg on 11/20 to remove inappropriate language/comments]
#74657 by traf Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:49 am
Are you under the impression that being able to see something is similar to being able to copy something?

Also, we banned Ilyes for an issue unrelated to artifacts. I’ll ask if i’m allowed to share or not.

Please feel free to private message me!

"Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you."

“Don't write so that you can be understood, write so that you can't be misunderstood.”
― William Howard Taft
#74658 by mt10kardans Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:04 am
traf wrote:Are you under the impression that being able to see something is similar to being able to copy something?

Sinner did 1st. thing 100% sure about that. But you cant prove it unless they show you how its done. Why would i even believe hacker(who do hacking) that say its not posible to do that rather than VAL who show me screen of Spear conversation about that they copy Supremes arts when he left? You can say all you want but believe its not just trolling. Its so unbelieveble that everyone thinks its just troll. Like everyne thought its just troll when they started brag about view my arts. At first i also though that its just trolling. But they are just bunch of idiots who fell that they got power to say everything they want without being punished.
#74660 by traf Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:12 am
Well, first of all, being able to look at something is very different from being able to act on what you see. Examples: protected cells in excel worksheets, CD-ROM (read only memory), and DVDs that have piracy protection on them. Likewise, all the client ever can do is ask the server to do something. The server is the only entity that can edit, modify, equip, move, or delete artifacts. The server never asks the client what arts it has, it’s always the server telling the client what it has. And even then, every artifact has the owner’s ID fused inside of it. If the requesting ID doesn’t match the owner, the server pouts and does nothing whatsoever.

And about that guy viewing your arts? We took that seriously. That’s why he isn’t here anymore. It was only my busy schedule that kept him alive for as long as he was allowed to be, and for that I apologize.

Also, what do you mean by “Sinner did 1st”?

Please feel free to private message me!

"Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you."

“Don't write so that you can be understood, write so that you can't be misunderstood.”
― William Howard Taft
#74662 by mt10kardans Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:51 am
What i mean is that Sinner was the realy first one who started to tell me that he sniffing my arts. Only back then i though its just troll like many thinks it is now. I started to take it seriously only couple weeks later when more join him and started tell me more facts about my ID and arts. Thats where i started take screens for evidence. This is not me making anything up its just what they reveal sooner or later. I didnt even have a thought about thigs like that is posible. In fact i dint also know that rotation speed is posible to make better untill yesterday when Bikko told about that like its nothing and good thing to do if you want to pvp and Greg write it about it here

[edited by Greg on 11/20 to remove inappropriate language/comments]
#74663 by Sinner Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:09 pm
mt10kardans wrote: Sinner did 1st. thing 100% sure about that.


I did first...it sounds a lot like you're accusing me of hacking. In which case, lets see the proof? I can easily prove that I've never "stolen" your arts, since every art I use I've had for anywhere between 6-12 months, mostly because I haven't had time to farm.

Additionally, did it ever occur to you that Spear saw Val in the system and decided to troll, knowing Val would share screenies and make himself look like a total fool?

Anyways, heres how i see it. If you want to find proof and accuse me of hacking, im all for it, i can prove i don't. Otherwise, you stop with these allegations that have no merit to them, or ill launch a complaint for harassment against you, and try my hardest to get you banned.

Old Greg wrote:As a reminder: making false claims or slanderous accusations, can result in a chat mute or in more serious situations, a game ban.
#74664 by mt10kardans Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:36 pm
Sinner wrote:
mt10kardans wrote: Sinner did 1st. thing 100% sure about that.


I did first...it sounds a lot like you're accusing me of hacking. In which case, lets see the proof? I can easily prove that I've never "stolen" your arts, since every art I use I've had for anywhere between 6-12 months, mostly because I haven't had time to farm.

Additionally, did it ever occur to you that Spear saw Val in the system and decided to troll, knowing Val would share screenies and make himself look like a total fool?

Anyways, heres how i see it. If you want to find proof and accuse me of hacking, im all for it, i can prove i don't. Otherwise, you stop with these allegations that have no merit to them, or ill launch a complaint for harassment against you, and try my hardest to get you banned.

Old Greg wrote:As a reminder: making false claims or slanderous accusations, can result in a chat mute or in more serious situations, a game ban.


Im not accusing you it is reality about what you are. i get mutted immediately when i do even one slight swear to you and i have real reason to do that not like you who just enjoy doing that. But you get away all the time for calling me inappropriate names and what else not.

[edited by Greg on 11/20 to remove inappropriate language/comments by mt1 and images showing inappropriate language by player name 'Sinner']
#74665 by Sinner Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:42 pm
Ooooh, how convenient that you happen to have screenies of me saying stuff like that. However, I have supporter, that account doesn't. Nice try. And at this point I do file a harassment claim, because I did get chat muted for a while back, and those screenies explain a lot.
#74667 by Nightsky Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:23 pm
I enjoy this moderation already. No offense but Moderation doesn't seem to be your both's strength. To be fair it's not mine either, however I know how to keep a community calm.

First of all I agree with one thing here: Accusations without a fixed proof are usually a no-go*. And chat messages made by the suspect themselves are not a proof. I could say that I hack but it's not really true. A proof would be a definitive advantage in combat or an abnormal increase in strength within an unrealistic amount of time.

*However, a suspect should be kept an eye on. Because this is what suspects are there for, especially if a few more are accusing them for cheats or hacks. And let's be honest here, we had quite a few players in the past who were suspected to be hackers and then turned out to be. The community has slowly developed an eye for this kind of thing, so accusations should still be considered, checked and potentially handled. We don't need public information of a certain player, but a clean sign would be a good start instead of keeping inside secrets. Game related informations which affect or are directed towards community members do not fall under the rule of keeping moderation internal informations as no one can use informations like "This guy is clean" as an advantage.

Secondly, leave the rule enforcement to the moderators. Teacher's pets are not that welcome in many communities. Take this as a friendly advice, Flandre Scarlet.

Sinner, dogs don't bite, but bark when they want to defend themselves. If someone claims that you did something (which you didn't do) and you react and defend yourself in a suspicious way, expect that you become a suspect. So in case it turns out that you aren't doing illegal things in the game, you shouldn't react to future comments like this.

To the topic itself: Rumors are not just Rumors. Unless 100% proven to be impossible/possible you shouldn't judge these rumors as false/true. Back then we were told that you can't make arts yourself which has been proven wrong a few weeks/months after by a player. I'm not going to dig up old cases, so don't talk about it either. Nonetheless, unless 100% proven, don't claim them as true/false and go more into the matter, otherwise the future might bring some unpleasant gifts.

Enough wise talk.

Image
Can I advertise my game in this forum? Others are allowed as well!
#74668 by Flandre Scarlet Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:28 pm
@nightsky i kinda just want to see mt10 banned, so i'm doing my best to trigger the person that keeps accusing my friends of things that were already proven wrong
#74669 by mt10kardans Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:46 pm
Flandre Scarlet wrote:
Im not accusing you it is reality about what you are. i get mutted immediately when i do even one slight swear to you and i have real reason to do that not like you who just enjoy doing that. But you get away all the time for calling me inappropriate names and what else not.


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from http://www.astroflux.net/rulesofconduct.html

Most of this is only because of you. Only because of you your friends got caught in hack by protecting your harassment against other players. You want me get banned? Then make me mod so i can finally do right thing and ban you all involved in this hack case. So you can have finally reason to ban me for doing right thing!

[edited by Greg on 11/20 to remove inappropriate language/comments]
#74670 by mt10kardans Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:49 pm
Flandre Scarlet wrote:@nightsky i kinda just want to see mt10 banned, so i'm doing my best to trigger the person that keeps accusing my friends of things that were already proven wrong

Your proof means nothing. Yes you want me get rid of me so bad that you all go that far that use your hacks against me. You are total correct about that part.

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AstroFlux is a MMO space shooter with numerous weapons, upgrades and abilities. Explore the galaxy and collect space junk to gain resources for new technologies.