For AstroFlux related discussion
#74794 by Nightsky Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:54 pm
Just a question regarding Prophecy:
Prophecy:
Increase energyAdd from 65 to 165

Does this mean it's percentage value or it's flat value? Because if it's the flat value, then it is not correct. Because the Prophecy flat damage is +260, so it would be a downgrade. If it's the Percentage, then please fix that because it's really confusing to sometimes see % and sometimes not. For the entire balance table. Both mixed can be confusing. Or at least note that something like DamageAdd refers to percentage and DamageFlat refers to the flat damage.

Speaking of this change, Is that actually the case? Because Prophecy as a ship would become very powerful then compared to it's counterpart (Scartrow). Not that I would mind since it's still quite easy to deal with a Prophecy compared to a Shadow... But 165% Sounds very high - for a 1500 flux ship. I mean as I said, I won't object since I use the Prophecy on my alt account, so it would give me a good boost.

Also, another ship I noticed:

Rocket Sled:
Increase cooldown to 40%


I don't know when this was discussed during this thread because I can remember suggesting something along the lines of making this a fast paced combat ship. Now it's being turned into a cooldown-demon but the ship itself still remains partially useless. Because of the heavy power nerfs on it. Honestly you should think about making it more combat based. The Cooldown reduction sounds good at first but to be honest this could be... abused. This would become an acid spray/deathcloud explorer on crack. Believe me, this could become a small problem.

Oh, and before I forget it, regarding the following:
Increased flat damages for several ships

Be careful with that. It may not be a problem in the high level brackets, but I have seen people with level 16 running around with an insane DPS on DMAT... giving DMAT something like 800 energy flat could turn this ship into a top-notch low-level PVP killer. Just please consider low level brackets as well. Because insane flat damage values could destroy the balance in the lower levels.

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#74796 by BrianN Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:33 am
This is a necrobump thread...its been more than two months since scythe posted on it; how are people not realizing that either nothing will happen, or that something will be done haphazardly.

And noone will comment on the recent nerf of judi lightning?

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” -Edmund Burke
#74797 by bolbi Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:33 am
Nightsky wrote:Just a question regarding Prophecy:
Prophecy:
Increase energyAdd from 65 to 165

Does this mean it's percentage value or it's flat value? Because if it's the flat value, then it is not correct. Because the Prophecy flat damage is +260, so it would be a downgrade. If it's the Percentage, then please fix that because it's really confusing to sometimes see % and sometimes not. For the entire balance table. Both mixed can be confusing. Or at least note that something like DamageAdd refers to percentage and DamageFlat refers to the flat damage.

Speaking of this change, Is that actually the case? Because Prophecy as a ship would become very powerful then compared to it's counterpart (Scartrow). Not that I would mind since it's still quite easy to deal with a Prophecy compared to a Shadow... But 165% Sounds very high - for a 1500 flux ship. I mean as I said, I won't object since I use the Prophecy on my alt account, so it would give me a good boost.

Also, another ship I noticed:

Rocket Sled:
Increase cooldown to 40%


I don't know when this was discussed during this thread because I can remember suggesting something along the lines of making this a fast paced combat ship. Now it's being turned into a cooldown-demon but the ship itself still remains partially useless. Because of the heavy power nerfs on it. Honestly you should think about making it more combat based. The Cooldown reduction sounds good at first but to be honest this could be... abused. This would become an acid spray/deathcloud explorer on crack. Believe me, this could become a small problem.

Oh, and before I forget it, regarding the following:
Increased flat damages for several ships

Be careful with that. It may not be a problem in the high level brackets, but I have seen people with level 16 running around with an insane DPS on DMAT... giving DMAT something like 800 energy flat could turn this ship into a top-notch low-level PVP killer. Just please consider low level brackets as well. Because insane flat damage values could destroy the balance in the lower levels.


Ok first point Scythe answered the energyAdd thing a while back, it means flat damage, but that is before the 4x multiplier that was put in place a few updates ago so it's saying Prophecy will get 660 flat energy damage, instead of 260.

Second point yeah Rocket Sled I believe I mentioned before that it is a free ship. and as most of the free ships have been at most slightly worse than a mid-level ship, the 40% cooldown seems like to much for a, once, free ship.

Third point, -.- I hate flat weapons and stats for this reason alone, it makes the whole balancing thing go way out of wack cause if we balance weapons and ships for high level play, then certain low level brackets can become super powerful with such flats. But if we balance it for low level use it becomes useless end game.

@BrianN well we've been talking it over a bit more with Scythe in modville, and he's hinted at trying to finalize at least the suggestions. However the actual update and testing part is a whole other beast to be tackled...

" 'Whatever you want people to do for you, do the same for them.'
(International Standard Version, Luke 6.31)"
#74801 by Nightsky Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:27 am
Alright, so regarding Prophecy I would say this clears some things up. Though I would have been happy to see a percentage buff, that sure would put Prophecy on a new level. But I guess the flat damage buff makes up for it, even though I'm not comfortable with this flat change, or any flat change at all. In my opinion the Prophecy should stay untouched in terms of damage values. But giving it a 5% - 10% Power regen stat could make it better.
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Well, regarding the flat damage in general, I do have an idea how we could potentially fix that. How about making the flat damage values on every ship scale with the player's level? So taking as example the Dmat-90: The ship currently has 800 Energy flat damage regarding the preliminary balance update. That is WAY too much for the lower level brackets. The highest flat damage art I have gotten so far on my alt is 550 - Unupgraded - Dmat-90 would surpass that artifact. And my alt is level 85. Imagine this in level 1 - 40 brackets... Players who have that ship will easily kick other player's butts with that ship and it's preinstalled weapon. Let's be honest, Gatling laser is really good. If the flat damage would scale with the player level however, we could say with each level this ship will receive +8 Flat damage. So on level 10 it would have +80 Flat damage, on level 100 it would have +800 Flat damage and on level 150 it would even have +1200 Flat damage. That is much better compared to the current system, for both high level players and low level players alike. Opinions?
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Regarding the free ships, so I'm speaking of the Y2K V-16, the Snowformer and the Rocket Sled - Of course they shouldn't be better as the other ships which cost like 1200 flux or more. But they shouldn't be useless either, because both the Y2K V-16 and the Snowformer never saw the light of the balance updates, leaving them behind while everything around them got buffed. The Rocket Sled is a more recent ship and therefor has more updated stats. So, I would suggest the following changes for all 3 ships:

The Snowformer
Health, Shield, Armor and Shield Regen values stay the same. Maybe give it +1 in Armor. About the premanufactured modules I would say remove the upgrade for the Snowball cannon and give it +2 Power instead. Or maybe raise the Snowball cannon upgrade to 6 entirely (Without the power upgrade of course). In my opinion at least.

The special stats - I would give this ship the following stats:
+25% Kinetic Damage
+5% Power regen
+3% Speed

or:
+20% Kinetic damage
+25% Power Capacity
+5% Power regen


The Y2K V-16
Since the base stats are very similar to the Snowformer, let's change them a bit. I would say give it 5 in Health, 4 in Armor, 7 in Shields and 5 in shield regen. Making it more shield based would certainly help. So, the premanufactured things - It doesn't have any. So let's give it +2 Shield and +1 Power - To tie it a bit with the Snowformer.


The special stats - I would give this ship the following stats:
+15% Attack speed
+5% Speed
+15% Kinetic damage
+15% Energy damage


Or to make it match it's actual purpose/description:
"The Y2K V-16 was originally designed a a firework launch platform. However, the technology used was far too advanced for its purpose, it didn't take long until someone figured out the ship was suitable for launching fireworks at your friends and foes alike."

How about:
+50% Attack speed
+5% Speed

+25% Cooldown (increased cooldown)

(This is moreso a description fitting idea - think about it, the cooldown debuff would certainly give a disadvantage)

The Rocket Sled
Since this is a more recent ship, the base stats are okay. The shield regen gives this ship a good pro-stat. The premanufactured things are also okay, level 6 engines - the explorer could also need that, as far as I remember the explorer doesn't have upgraded engines. However, we should twist some stats regarding the bonuses.

The special stats - I would give this ship the following stats:
+30% Speed
-50% Power regen
-20% Cooldown


In my opinion it's pretty balanced. That would turn this ship into a shield regenerating fighter type - With a good weapon to counter that power regen debuff.

Thoughts?

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#74803 by hugojmaia Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:26 pm
Nightsky wrote:Well, regarding the flat damage in general, I do have an idea how we could potentially fix that. How about making the flat damage values on every ship scale with the player's level? So taking as example the Dmat-90: The ship currently has 800 Energy flat damage regarding the preliminary balance update. That is WAY too much for the lower level brackets. The highest flat damage art I have gotten so far on my alt is 550 - Unupgraded - Dmat-90 would surpass that artifact. And my alt is level 85. Imagine this in level 1 - 40 brackets... Players who have that ship will easily kick other player's butts with that ship and it's preinstalled weapon. Let's be honest, Gatling laser is really good. If the flat damage would scale with the player level however, we could say with each level this ship will receive +8 Flat damage. So on level 10 it would have +80 Flat damage, on level 100 it would have +800 Flat damage and on level 150 it would even have +1200 Flat damage. That is much better compared to the current system, for both high level players and low level players alike. Opinions?

The current ships with somewhat relevant flat bonuses are the DMAT, Skeletor and X-121 Carrier. The Sailfish and Prophecy have low bonuses on that department.
And with the update the list will change to be DMAT, Skeletor, X-121 Carrier, Prophecy and Crystal. With the Sailfish remaining on the side.
I agree with making the flat bonus level based, it'd allow these ships to have higher flat bonuses, it'd prevent them from breaking the low level bracket and it'd make them more useable in the high levels.
#74808 by bolbi Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:12 pm
I like that idea for flat damage scaling of certain ships, however unsure on if it can be done without changing a very big portion of the current ship system. I like the idea and I'll ask about it, but again not sure if it can be done without hampering other areas of development.

On the stuff about the free ships, I always saw rocket sled as being a cooldown version of explorer so I thought the idea was good, however the 40% is probably to much IMO, though I believe the idea is that it can only use it's present launcher as it's main weapon and anything else isn't going to work very well with it's current power stat. and the buffs to it's weapon would also give it a weapon that can work okay for it. The first suggestion for Y2k ship is much better. The second would be to powerful low level IMO, with that much attack speed your basically giving that low level at least one extra good art, and last time I was in lower bracket cooldown meant nothing as most engagements lasted at most one hard shields use, especially with good damage.

In any case it should be discussed more on what direction the Rocket Sled should take as I said I think it should go in the direction of a cooldown Explorer but maybe like 30% cooldown not 40%, and everything else can stay the same

" 'Whatever you want people to do for you, do the same for them.'
(International Standard Version, Luke 6.31)"
#74809 by Nightsky Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:38 pm
Now the problem with the Rocket Sled is that it can be used in many ways. It doesn't have a real direction. It's fast enough to be considered a raider ship but doesn't really have the power to work good as a Raider. It's too slow to be considered a true traveling ship. It has a good cooldown to be considered a caster/tank but doesn't have enough health to sustain long enough like one. In other words all the ways you could use it as are mediocre and not really developed enough. Final verdict: The Rocket Sled requires a direction. A fully developed one. And the main reason why I would prefer to turn the Rocket Sled into a raider kind of ship is because we don't have any. No real ones.

As I suggested above, the idea for the change would turn this ship into a raider ship. Normal power capacity with low recharge. Basically attack your enemy with a full barrage and run away to take your time to recharge it again. The Gift Wrapper could function as a shield regeneration denying weapon after you fired your entire barrage since it doesn't take any energy. The cooldown stat can help with using the speed boost often enough. Due to it's shield recharge rate it could regenerate damage quickly. Lastly, the low health and shield could be a fatal weakness. Skilled pilots could use this weakness to take out this ship. Final verdict: This version of the Rocket Sled would have a purpose. A pretty unique one. Considering that we soon get ships with 30% Speed, let's put it on 40%.

In my opinion this would give this ship a good purpose. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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#74810 by BrianN Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:27 pm
Free ships should be a novelty, not a viable option. It should be the type of ship you would be embarrassed to die to.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” -Edmund Burke
#74854 by Nightsky Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:09 pm
I just noticed something. In the start post I can see one thing that kinda grinds my gears. So I see that the spore smart gun is supposed to get it's debuff type changed. But right now it is the only weapon that has a corrosive resistance debuff as a main debuff (no ET) - Why though? We have two free options for energy debuff (Sonic missiles, Void Tentacles), we have one free option for kinetic debuff (Infested missiles) - Why take away the only corrosive debuff that is available for free and generally?

Please overthink that. I don't want the nuke to be the only corrosive resistance debuffer in the game.

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#74908 by bolbi Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:00 pm
Hmmm... Never even crossed my mind when I suggested it be changed to an armor or damage debuff instead, my reasiong for that was because it'd be far superior dps wise if it dealt the same type of damage it resist debuffed, so it'd be much stronger than the other 2 smart guns. I do agree that there should be something, semi easily obtainable that can debuff corrosive resist.

So if not change another weapon to have corrosive resist debuff, and looking at the weapon list I don't see a great candidate, (maybe moth zero gland but it's really hard to hit with and does a decent job already as a high impact weapon)

Other option I see is counter the better pseudo dps on spore smart gun by making the other 2more diverse ET wise. As in leave the other 2 with their other debuff options, but the only other option for spore smart gun debuff wise could be a stronger resist debuff.

Thoughts?

" 'Whatever you want people to do for you, do the same for them.'
(International Standard Version, Luke 6.31)"
#74962 by Nightsky Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:56 pm
I see one candidate for a corrosive resist debuffing weapon, and it's the Nuke itself.

Right now it has a quite insignificant DoT as debuff and other than that it has the (probably) highest corrosive resist debuff in the game. Other than that it's not used as a nuke anyways. It uses kinetic + Energy damage, so a corrosive resist debuff as a main debuff would be totally fine. In exchange we nerf the corrosive resist debuff ET, add a 35% base corrosive resist debuff over 10 seconds with a 15% ET debuff enhancement. Additionally we are going to add/enhance an energy DoT over 20 seconds with a **Significant** bonus - So people can still decide if they want an old nuke, or a debuffer nuke.

Or create a second smart gun that is parallel to the current spore smart gun, and instead of making it debuff corrosive, make it debuff damage and let it deal corrosive damage. my idea at least.

Speaking of the nuke - In the else case buff (so the regular damage), I feel like the Nuke needs a general look-over. I can remember the time when it used to be the highest blast radius weapon with (if I remember correctly) the highest damage in the game. It was good back then. Now however it is heavily outclassed by weapons like the algae nova gland, the nexar bomb/shadow bomb... And maybe potential future blast weapons. So with that, I want to suggest something else.

I want the nuke to be like it's old ancestor again. That means: Highest blast radius, high damage and high DoT. Not too powerful to insta kill everything, but powerful enough to leave some good scratches in the hull of the enemy. So I would love to suggest the following:

- Increasing the blast radius by 30% - 50% -> This would cover a large area and it would make dodging it from close quarters rather difficult.
- Increasing the direct damage by 50% - 75% -> A bit more damage could help making it a good DD weapon.
- Increasing the DoT by 100% - 200% -> Back then the DoT used to be good, now however it is... VERY insignificant.
- Replace the energy DoT techs with "increase the DoT by up to 75% - 100%"

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#75039 by bolbi Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:11 am
So me and Nightsky talked a bit about this in game, the corrosive debuff weapon.

Basically, I agree there should be a weapon with decent availability, that has an innate corrosive resist debuff, a few things we were talking about were these

Nuke launcher options
     (in general) strengthen DoT (and possibly Range, I'm not as sold on that one as Nightsky sounded but I'm not putting it out of the picture) as well right now it sucks real bad
     Instead of upping damage add an innate corrosive resist debuff, and increase range, and scale the damage dropoff to compensate for larger range. about 25% increase to range if this is the case IMO
     maybe increase the DD and other damage techs to make up for the fact that we wouldn't be upping the base damage as is suggested right now.

ANG
     another possability for adding corrosive resist debuff to a base weapon. if so we both thought it the cloud AOE acceleration/speed should be faster cause otherwise it's sort range or for things behind you/not moving

Make another Smart gun to have the stuff spore smart gun has now, then nerf it the same as other smart guns. Or maybe even three new smart guns, each with something like the current Spore smart gun, base resist debuff of one type of damage and deals damage in the other 2 types

C-4
     Another possability, add base corrosive resist debuff
     make droppable by FT 3% (to fit the accessibility aspect, or just make it the same droprate as railgun)

another thing we talked about was availability of a few other weapons not just C-4, I thought it was interesting and wondered what everyone else thought of this. He brought up a good point of the starter ships being mostly useless nowadays and it wouldn't exactly be easy to get these weapons.

Plasma blaster
     make a drop from warriors 1% to mirror SF

CL and Piraya
     0.5% drop rate from exp. marophages and bio. macrophages respectively

" 'Whatever you want people to do for you, do the same for them.'
(International Standard Version, Luke 6.31)"
#75050 by Nightsky Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:56 pm
Alongside with the things that bolbi and I have discussed in the game already, there are a few more things I would like to talk about. A few weapons that seem to be "forgotten".

Energy Nova
You see, this weapons is very often referred to a utility weapon. Whilst this is true, it once served a purpose where it dealt a semi-decent amount of damage. It actually was one of the weapons I had upgraded back then to eliminate groups of enemies. Of course it never was the weapon for killing enemies, but thinking about it, during the early stages of this game it had a decent use. In the later stages and later levels it just purely serves as a damage debuff weapon/missile killer.

Well, thinking about it, how often did this weapon really receive a significant buff? In my opinion, never. And also looking on the wiki the only buffs that were introduced were the Elite techs. It's not much compared to the balance changes other weapons have received.

What I would change on this weapon/buff
First of all I would consider reducing the power usage a little. I thought about 10% of the total power use. With that you can sustain weapon fire a little longer. Then I would consider upping the base damage from 54 damage to 150 damage. Doesn't sound too much but considering it's an explosive weapon it is quite a bit. Then I would up the gained damage from upgrades from 143% to 170% - 180% for a better increase in damage. The rest of the upgrades should stay the same. Also, alongside with that change, reduce the burn tech from 1000% to 750%. To calculate a fully upped Nova damage + DD ET, here is a little calculation for level 120 players:

150 damage + 960% (level 120) = 1.590
1.590 damage + 170% (upgrades) = 4.293
4.293 damage + 75% (ET) = ~6.440
6.440 damage * 4 (RoF) = 25.760

25.760 base DPS on level 120. If we would add a guessed 400% artifact damage + 100% RoF from artifacts we would get around 206.080 DPS for this weapon. Not too much and it would have a certain availability. Keep in mind that this is a calculated DPS value for normal artifacts. The true damage can differ due to ship bonuses, stronger arts etc.

Cluster Missiles
You know, the one thing I love about this weapon is that it doesn't necessarily hits. Sounds stupid? Well, it isn't. In a way you can prevent the enemy from running away and having a constant flow of danger around them. The only issue the cluster missiles have right now is that they are fired in a straight line. You don't cover enough of an area to make this a dangerous weapon. They are missing spread. You see, the cluster missiles would be good and they would actually be excellent to keep the enemy at bay if you consider the following changes:

What would I change on this weapon/buff?
The first change I would think about is giving this weapon a spread. The missiles should be fired out like the ones from the fanatic tank. Why? Well, as you can see the fanatic tank can hit you because it's missiles have a long flight time, they are fast and they hit better if you plan on running away. The spread on his missiles simply cover a bigger area and they acceleration is giving them this danger factor. The same could apply if we give the cluster missiles the following stats:

- Innate spread, a 10 degree spread from each missile would be good. Gives a higher change to hit enemies upon release.
- Maybe give it a bigger missile count and cut the damage (and degree count) a bit respectively.
- Keep the current guidance or make it a bit better/accurate.
- Give the cluster missiles a flight time of 12 seconds on the highest level. (24 seconds with ET)
- Give them an acceleration factor that they progressively grow faster. Makes it harder for them to hit stationary targets but easier to hit moving targets.

Overall you would keep the weapon balanced. You would give it a unique use too. Think about it for a while, we have enough missile weapons that work the same. Also, I think the goal of a cluster missile is to secure the chance to hit, right? So making them fly side my side doesn't help with that goal.

We need a new corrosive ship
Another rather random thing I have thought about is that we have usually a ship for a specific type for almost every price range. But we don't have a corrosive ship for the 1000 - 2000 flux pricing range. Mind thinking about this? Considering that the next cheapest corrosive ship basically is the Crystal/Nexar Fighter after Skeletor.

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AstroFlux is a MMO space shooter with numerous weapons, upgrades and abilities. Explore the galaxy and collect space junk to gain resources for new technologies.