Post what you've discovered, guides, hints & tips
#55080 by I_Am_Jarvis Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:27 pm
- Omni Dampener 86 (79) Max Upgraded
* +49% all resist, +4.4% power regen, 54.2% shield converted to health
- Armor Hardener 107 (111) Max Upgraded
* +217.9% armor, +133.6 corr damage, +37.6% energy resist, +27.6% energy damage
- Armor Hardener 98 (125) 3 Upgrades
* +230.2% armor, +29 all damage, +54.8% shield, +26.3% kinetic damage
- Structural Hardener 79 (76) Max Upgraded
* +104.7% health, +54.8% power, +2540 health, +645.6 armor
- Omni Dampener 67 (73) Max Upgraded
* +38.8% all resist, +24.8% corr damage, +46% shield, +2466.6 shield
- Energy Booster 106 (126) Max Upgraded
* +69.9% energy damage, +38.2% attack speed
- Energy Booster 85 (73) Max Upgraded
* +57.3% energy damage, +34.3% energy damage, +56.5% shield, +58.6 energy damage
- Superior Weapon Hypercharger 95 (125) 3 Upgrades
* +34.7% attack speed, +3843.9 health, +78.8 energy damage, +4013.6 shield
(the ones above are all ones that I have in my tanking and pvp setups, I wont bore you with my speed arts...)
- Omni Amplifier 78 (75) Max Upgraded
* +33.6% all damage, 58.4% shield converted into health, +26.3% energy damage
- Superior Weapon Hypercharger 62 (77) Max Upgraded
* +27.6% attack speed, +21.1% kinetic damage, +16.6% corr damage, +16.8% corr damage, +10.4% energy damage
- Superior Power Generator 64 (55) Max Upgraded
* +9.1% power regen, +73.1 energy damage, +55.9% armor, +54.3 kinetic damage
- Superior Power Generator 76 (78) Max Upgraded
* +11.9% power regen, +26.6% all resist

.... God this is taking a while... Ill get back to this later, but that was it for all the arts that are Max Upgraded

Many a day, I go through mental debates:
Is there any exception to the 3-Ates?
"Tolerate, Compensate, Mediate."
Alas there is none, they are so great.
Perhaps you can try, but only your best.
For every time, these shall pass the test.
-E. Jarvis
#55089 by Jpsi Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:25 pm
Ok Scythe, I made the small analysis:

- actually, the regen you gain via F ability is 4 time the shield regen, for the HP part, at equilibrium. But if you start at 0 shield, during the first CD you will indeed end up with a regen of 2.5, because you are missing shield to be at full regen. For the second cd, you will have 2.5 too, but you will also convert 50% of the remaining 50% of the shield, that was left after the first CD. The HP regen is thereby increasing.

The SH that you gain, during the first CD, is 50% of the shield regen. During the second CD, it's an extra 25% of the shield regen. 12.5% during the third, etc... At equilibrium, you are not gaining any shield, and the shield will fluctuate between the value regen x CD and 2 x regen x CD (ex: with 5 seconds CD, and 1k regen, your shield will fluctuate between 5k shield, just after F, and 10k shield, just before next F).

Here is the curve:
RepairAbility_fix.jpg
RepairAbility_fix.jpg (54.43 KiB) Viewed 4121 times


As you can see, above 5 CD you are quite close to the factor 4 that I mentioned. You will never really reach 4 times, merely approach it very closely.


Now, in practice, if you get shoot during the process, you will lose shield, thereby suppressing most of your regen capability. If you constantly lose all the regenerated shield, your regen will only be 1 time the shield regen.

So the "real" regen of HP setup is between 1 time the shield regen, and 4 times.

In practice, we are mainly regenerating during hard shield, so we can try to simulate the best scenario:
- first 2 seconds of hard shield, then use of repair, gives us a regen of 2 x regen / 2 * 4 = 4 x regen each hard shield + 50% shield, or a regen per second of 2.5 x regen
- let say 2 seconds of full damage before next hard shield, with a regen of 1 time regen per seconds
- give us a regen over 4 seconds of 5 regen + 2 regen, or an average regen per second of 7/4 = 1.75 regen per second.
The value goes up with higher CD (I use here 20% CD), or with longer hard shield (1.75 is also valid for 0% CD and a hard shield of 2.5 seconds).

So I propose to use an average value of 1.75, or around 2 of you say that most people are using extra CD in their setup.

But one should realise that if someone starts to run, thereby avoiding damages, the regen will follow the curve I just gave.
Last edited by Jpsi on Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:34 am, edited 5 times in total.

#55090 by Jpsi Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:28 pm
Jarvis, what are you doing :shock:

I just adviced you to do the analysis yourself, cause it's worse it, but I was not suggesting that we get a list of your arts, nor that we (or I) would do the analysis :o

Sorry if my message was not clear though.

#55181 by Grobson Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:42 am
One other thing that is not covered. When 'F' is most needed to heal, shields are usually already down, providing only a minimum heal. All calculation is ineffective at that point, as just the minimum heal is applied..

That is my main reason to go with hp -> shield convert. Press q, (run) and heal. The other reason is that my converter is awesome. I can hardly do without.

Looking at high level artifacts, i can imagine that (at least in pve), players will start using arts providing more than 150+% + health and 150+% shield with armor and/or regen. That catches the punch as well as the tickle.

My best arts - probably already have better..but still fun,
#55210 by Jpsi Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:21 pm
You should always use F just after using hard shield. If you have 2 seconds hard shield, it will give you in total 400% of your shield regen as hp, plus 100% of your shield regen as shield. With 2.5 seconds, this goes up to 500% shield regen as HP, plus 125% as shield. So even under heavy fire, you should be able to regen with a correct timing.

Now imagine that you have 1.5k shield regen (which is possible to have in hp setup), this is a guarantee of 6k HP + 1.5k shield at the end of each hard shield (if you have a 2s hard shield).

Now, if you run (as you should do if you absolutely need to regen), you will gain:
- 6k HP at the end of the first hard shield (after 2 seconds). You will also have 1.5k SH left. You start running during this 2 seconds, therefor avoiding damage after this point.
- 18k HP at the end of the second hard shield (after 7 seconds if you don't have any CD, before that if you use cooldown arts). You will still have 4.5k SH left.
- 24k HP at the end of the third hard shield (after 12 sec). 6k SH left.
- 27k HP at the end of the fourth hard shield (after 17 sec). 6.75k SH left.
- 28.5k HP at the end of the fifth hard shield (after 22 sec). 7.125k SH left.

The convergence is 30k HP gain per 5 seconds, with 7.5k SH left each time. So it's indeed 30/5 = 6k HP per second, or 1.5k x 4. The 22 seconds in simulation will be shorter if you use ship with reduced cooldown (or arts) :)
Last edited by Jpsi on Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

#55220 by I_Am_Jarvis Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:25 am
Jpsi wrote:Jarvis, what are you doing :shock:

I just adviced you to do the analysis yourself, cause it's worse it, but I was not suggesting that we get a list of your arts, nor that we (or I) would do the analysis :o

Sorry if my message was not clear though.


Apologies. I was under the impression, seeing as we we're discussing how this tied into me having bad arts, that putting a list of said bad arts would help clear the air as to why I would speak of them as such.
Last edited by I_Am_Jarvis on Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Many a day, I go through mental debates:
Is there any exception to the 3-Ates?
"Tolerate, Compensate, Mediate."
Alas there is none, they are so great.
Perhaps you can try, but only your best.
For every time, these shall pass the test.
-E. Jarvis
#55228 by AC-Archangel Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:03 am
pardon me but i do not see how such an indepth guide is neccesary if a player thinks about the base stats of their ship. simply if your ship has more health than shield stat, go with sh build, if more sh than hp go with hp, unless your arts are somehow massively massively better in the opposite build. Because the add hp% and add sh% ets and then convert is just plain how it's done.

When the game dies remember to say sorry you didnt listen to me magnus.

http://rainmercs.freeforums.org/index.php
#55234 by Jpsi Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:47 am
FIX: I just finally understood what was bothering me about the factor 5 that I mentioned about the regen. I was not fully understanding this, but this was what the model was telling me. Well I had a small mistake in the model, because I was not taking the difference of shield obtain between 2 CD, but the total shield. That's why it was correctly calibrated for the first CD (it gave the factor 2.5), but went up to 5 instead of 4. The model did not take into account the fact that the gain in shield was decreasing, and was 0 at equilibrium (all the shield gain is converted into HP).

I corrected the text about regen to reflect that.

Sheep, it depends: if you use judi for instance, you can use a convert art to go full HP, but because of the low armor you could be less protected than using an %shield art without convert. The 35% base protection will probably work better.
Also, there are ships where both strategies work, like vindi or tanker.
This guide give you the oportunity to understand what is going on, and to do the right choice. Of course people can just read the first part, this is the quick "not in-depth" information: guides are merely available for people who want to read them, it's not a mandatory part of AF.

#55386 by Grobson Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:41 am
Thank you Ipsi for your further explanation.

Personally, I prefer the constant regen instead of the increasing heal from pressing 'F. But thats based on feeling, and arts, not numbers. Quite some shield regen is required to beat the F key.

Please note that on Sheepdog's Judi, another 75% shield regen can be made out of heal convert to regen. Your sacrifice of health is only little if the ship has low base health. Works best on retro. With both regen elites, 12k to 14k regen is easily obtained. Based on arts, maximum shield elite can be picked as well. You will still have massive regen.

My best arts - probably already have better..but still fun,
#55393 by Jpsi Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:08 pm
Grobson wrote:Personally, I prefer the constant regen instead of the increasing heal from pressing 'F. But thats based on feeling, and arts, not numbers. Quite some shield regen is required to beat the F key.


Well we should remember that the regen of SH setups is generally more than 4 time more than the regen of a HP setup. So, even in optimum situation with the F key - factor 4 regen via F key if no damage taken - it's difficult to beat a SH setup in term of regen.

It all depends of arts, and gameplay choice. The conclusion I made for myself is that both strategies can eventually be equivalent, if you push the regen of HP setup a bit by using arts (note that %regen arts will not multiply the regen obtained via convert, so will not have a dramatic impact on SH setup regen).

#63231 by AnthonyC118 Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:30 am
This used to be a secret, but I feel like sharing it: the best armor tech is actually repair cooldown reduction, at least with a decent cooldown ship like blade or tanker.

Why? The repair function has a few unique effects. First off, it nullifies enemy armor debuffs, and secondly, it doubles your armor for 2 seconds. With a cooldown of 30% or more, you can constantly keep up this armor bonus, which has three effects: it doubles your armor, makes it extremely difficult for the enemy to score an armor debuff (they have about 2 seconds between repairs to both debuff your armor and exploit that debuff), and also allows you to regenerate freely. My current build's 10k armor is boosted to 20k by this, making it work on pretty much all attacks. It gets to the point where the build can straight-up tank a Nexar Edge.

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